Barefoot/FiveFinger running

[rjsteadman]

Hi all,

I've had a pair of Vibrams for a while which I've been walking in and just this week started to run in them (inspired by reading 'Born to Run' by Christopher McDougall - highly recommended!). It's been a bit of a revelation, after 2 years of ChiRunning, to discover that the very soft & gentle stride I thought I had is not so soft after all! It's taken me 3 goes but now I think I'm starting to get that soft footfall (as Danny says, as though you're trying to sneak up on someone). I'd been running in Nike Frees and it felt pretty soft but even they were masking it!

However, it's caused me to slow down considerably - my easy pace was under 8min/miles before and today it came out as almost 9m30! I didn't actually know I could run that slow. But that's the only pace I can manage it so far - with time it may get faster.

Anyway, it's already taught me a lot in just a week and I can see there is a long way to go. But I'm starting to understand now why I was still getting injuries and still suffering more wear & tear than I thought I should be.

Robert.

[AussieBear]

Robert,

Thanks for your post. I am actually looking to get a pair
of Five-Fingers. Personally, I have gone through a bit of
a watershed moment with my Chi Running by attempting
bare foot running.

Once you do away with all that padding, you know straight
away when you don't contact the ground under your column!
I too found initially that I was running slower. After all, the
nerve endings in the soles of your feet that have been asleep
are now sending you signals that have to get processed.

Initially it was running in socks across a grass paddock (playing
field). In lieu of a pair of VFF's I had a bash at running a couple of
K's in a worn out pair of house slippers. I looked funny, but I
was not out to make a fashion statement.

All up it has dramatically helped my Chi Running technique.

Regards,

AussieBear.

[Kendoji]

I just got a pair of Nike Free 5.0s, and despite feeling too small, I had to try them out and my first run with them turned out to be the fastest run I've recorded this year. And I wasn't trying to go fast at all. The fact that they're so small worries me, so today I ran in my Nike Pegasus and it was a horrible feeling not being able to feel the ground through the cushioning at all.

Maybe I'll look into the five fingers as well (I've been on their website before). They do look very silly though!

[bsgopalan]

I have leg length discrepancy and need a heel lift in my R shoe. Do you think I can still run with the heel lift in the Vibram's. I run fine with the lifts in Nike Free 3.0s.
One of my disadvantages is I can never truly run barefeet cause of my leg length discrepancy. However, I am looking for the most minimal shoe to mimic barefoot running.

[pacificrunner]

I have leg length discrepancy and need a heel lift in my R shoe. Do you think I can still run with the heel lift in the Vibram's. I run fine with the lifts in Nike Free 3.0s.
One of my disadvantages is I can never truly run barefeet cause of my leg length discrepancy. However, I am looking for the most minimal shoe to mimic barefoot running.

Hmm, I too have leg length discrepancy and I have no problems running bare foot. As a matter of fact, it was some barefoot running time I did earlier in my Chirunning attempt that I think helped my form, feet and overall running improve.

A human body adapts very well to almost anything when given the chance to do so, but you must exercise gradual progress with barefoot running!

David.

[chowderhead]

Robert, I just wanted to echo your experience. I've been experimenting with barefoot running and am going slower, no question. There is a huge difference between using even the lightest shoe (in my case some very worn New Balance 790's) and going barefoot

Doing chirunning in shoes you're encouraged to feel ("sense") what's out there. But going barefoot you kind of have no choice.

Cheers!

[jsl]

I just bought a pair of Vibram Five Fingers (Sprint) and used them for a mile at the track. I didn't time any laps, but did try to run fast. I had done a few laps barefoot in the past, but found the small pebbles rocks and burrs were too tough on my feet.

The feel of the ground in the Vibrams was incredible. It is impossible to heel strike in them. I don't know if I ran faster or slower, but they felt great.

I already run in some fairly minimal and flat shoes (Adidas Adizero Bostons - not the Boston Classic). But after running in the Vibrams and them putting the Adizero's back on, it felt like I was running on sponges in 10-inch heels. Never felt that way before.

I plan to ease the Vibrams into more and more of my runs, and see how they do. I don't know if I'll switch to them for all my running, as I'm unsure how they' (and my feet) will hold up over 10+ miles. But we'll see.

Jeff

[Mober]

I actually go faster, I think because my stride shortens and my cadence is much more consistent. Also helps in having floppy feet. I never could tell in shoes. But still use shoes for long runs ...

[rjsteadman]

I think I got a bit carried away (as usual!), and start doing all my runs in the Vibrams - now I feel as though I have a bruise in the middle of my foot, so I've taken a week off running to let it recover.

[Flecha veloz]

I also read about the Vibram 5 Fingers in the "Born To Run" book by Christopher McDougall. If you haven't read it yet, it is a great book. It not only explains all of the erroneous info about motion control shoes and the good news about barefoot or minimal support shoes but is a great story about the Tarahumara people of Northern Mexico. Midfoot landing and ChiRunning gets a plug also! I am missing a bone in each little toe and cannot wear this type of footwear, including Injinji socks. I am a few months short of 65 and have been wearing Nike Free 5.0 for 5 years, about the same time I found ChiRunning and eliminated a 20+ year bout with an Achilles issue. I do 95% trail running, including 50K and trail marathons and have forgotten how to run with a heel strike in clunky shoes! For fun I hit the beach at low tide and just wear socks.

[chowderhead]

Hey, has anyone tried using aquasocks in lieu of the Vibram FiveFingers?

I have been running barefoot once or twice/week and do fine on pavement. It's just those new gravel roads that bother me. I'm sure they FiveFingers would help, but something in me pauses at paying $90+shipping for something that is supposed to imitate nothing. Aquasocks, which can be bought for like $5 or $10, seem like they might be an economical alternative, especially for occasional use.

[gliderbee]

FWIW,

I just received a pair of Aquasocks today, and they look perfectly fit for running. I'll give it a try tomorrow and I'll let you know how it went. Currently, I'm running with Nike Free 5.0 and Puma Lift (and a few more shoes to try in the closet ).

Stefan.

[gliderbee]

FWIW,

I just received a pair of Aquasocks today, and they look perfectly fit for running. I'll give it a try tomorrow and I'll let you know how it went. Currently, I'm running with Nike Free 5.0 and Puma Lift (and a few more shoes to try in the closet ).

The closest to barefoot that I've found until know is the Feelmax Panka; basically, it's just a piece of strong textile under your foot attached to a sock with laces to keep it from falling off. I walk in them even in my office, and until now, nobody noticed anything. Perfect. Running with them is as running barefoot with some protection against small rocks or pieces of glass: you'll feel them under your feet, but it will not injure you.

Stefan.

[chowderhead]

[quote="gliderbee"]FWIW,

I just received a pair of Aquasocks today, and they look perfectly fit for running. I'll give it a try tomorrow and I'll let you know how it went. Currently, I'm running with Nike Free 5.0 and Puma Lift (and a few more shoes to try in the closet ). .[/quote]

great! will be interested to hear your report.

[gliderbee]

Ok, I did a 5K (5.29km or 3.29 miles to be exact) run on concrete and asphalt, with a small stretch of grass thrown in, wearing my new PDQ Aqua Socks (FWIW, I'm 50 years old, my average pace was 8.49/mile, fastest mile was 7.52 min and I ran for 28:58 min).

My "normal" shoesize is 43 and I bought them in UK size 9 (that's US 10, and European 43). They weight 225 gr (8 oz) per shoe and they are width and long enough to give a very light, comfortable and "free" feeling; in fact they first felt a bit loose, and to be on the safe side, I ran with running socks on (I didn't want to risk any blisters either); maybe I might have bought them half a size smaller.
They are closed with velcro, and I really had to stretch the velcro as far as possible to have the feeling that they will stay on while running (but there was no problem during the run).
You can read some more info here (where I bought them):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230359957363&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1685wt_939

When I refer to pictures, you can see them here:
http://picasaweb.google.be/gliderbee/Aquasocks?authkey=Gv1sRgCPf4qcSVjOa7dg#


As I wrote before, I normally run with Nike Free 5.0 and Puma Lift. For normal walking (and very sometimes running on grass), I use Feelmax Panka. The feel of running in these Aquasocks comes nearest to running with the Pankas.

Although the sole of the Aquasocks is much thicker, the feeling of the surface on which you are running is very good; I can feel the difference between concrete and asphalt (and of course grass), and the presence of rocks and unevenness is felt but it never hurts.

There's very little cushioning (much less then the Nike Free 5.0; I didn't try my 3.0 yet), but as I said, the feeling is nearer to running with the Pankas. You certainly will not land on your heels with these on your feet (well, maybe just once, the first step ).
They have an innersole that can be removed, and I think I could have run without these, but I didn't try it (see pictures; notice there is a running figure in the logo).

I sole is made of a kind of very strong rubber, but very pliable (see pictures); it certainly feels as going to last quite some distance.

Maybe it was also because I was wearing running socks, but the Aqua Socks felt quite warm during running; maybe a mesh upper part would be better in hot weather.

All in all, I think that after a bit getting used to, and in not too hot weather, these can make quite nice minimal running shoes, and for the price (I payed USD 10), I guess there's not much (financial) risk in trying them). I keep looking though for a pair that has a more "open" upper part.

Stefan.

[chowderhead]

thanks for the complete report!

it's not surprising they were kind of hot; i suppose that for most aqua socks, being warm and wetsuit-like is a good feature.

currently i am enjoying doing some runs completely barefoot, but i am leery of going on unknown roads, far from home, etc. maybe something like the aquasocks could be a good safety.

cheers! chowderhead

[rone]

this is all VERY interesting. however, i will be even more interested to hear reports back after 3 and then 6 months of experience with the five fingers as well as from barefoot runners. all too often over my running life (30 years), i have seen these fads come in, people swear by the product or style change and then the reports of injury start. so pls do post back with your experiences. and i do wish you the best as the minimal style of all this is esthetically attractive.

[rjsteadman]

I know what you mean about fads that were going to cure everything. I remember when they told me to get some big cushioned running shoes to protect me from injury - now that didn't work out so well!

[chowderhead]

Ron, I can give you a little bit of the "injury report" you asked for.

In some ways I've been trying barefoot running on and off for about two years. It came about this way:
a) It started because I hated running, but my martial arts training required me to do some. I had huge padded running shoes and ended up hurting my knees.
b) I resolved to figure out how to not make running hurt. I learned about chi running and got some lessons and found it was really hard to do in the big padded shoes. I got minimal shoes and the technique made more sense and I stopped hurting myself.
c) So, the huge padded shoes were one fad that did not work for me.
d) After that I got curious about no shoes, so I started doing little workouts (say about 2 miles running plus some push ups, etc) in bare feet or with moccasins. No injuries with that.

What's new this year, why I still say I'm "experimenting," is that I haven't really done a lot of miles barefoot. Right now it's about 5 miles 3x/week. Perhaps half of those runs are barefoot.

Currently my legs feel livelier and healthier than ever, but I am feeling a bit more stress in my hips. Not sure what it's coming from, but I'm working on figuring it out. In any case it's nothing like the injury I got when I was running the old, bad way in the spongy shoes.

Cheers, chowderhead

[gliderbee]

this is all VERY interesting. however, i will be even more interested to hear reports back after 3 and then 6 months of experience with the five fingers as well as from barefoot runners. all too often over my running life (30 years), i have seen these fads come in, people swear by the product or style change and then the reports of injury start. so pls do post back with your experiences. and i do wish you the best as the minimal style of all this is esthetically attractive.

Well, I will probably be using them for running, but I don't know when yet: as I wrote earlier, I have quite some shoes to try out.

Just one remark: I agree that a minimal style is esthetically attractive, but I don't think the look of these Aquasocks is; they look a bit amorf to me ..

Stefan.

[Flecha veloz]

I find it interesting that some think barefoot or minamalist footwear is some sort of fad. As it was pointed out in "Born To Run", we, or at least our ancestors, have been doing this for about 40,000 years!

[ATPorter]

I have been using VFF for two months now have appoximately 60 miles in them. I started out running just one mile at the end of my workout using the VFF and have increased to a maximum of 8 so far. I am finding my best and fastest runs are now with the VFF's and my regular running shoes feel large and clunky.

The biggest bonus: I am no longer wearing orthotics in my work shoes and my feet are pain free!

[macmanaway]

Around 17 years ago I started running in windsurfing boots that looked like foot wetsuits made of neoprene. It was often dark when I got home from work and I took my two dogs with me so I was limited to the surrounding farm fields. In Ohio it is muddy and sloppy half of the year so I used these boots to avoid 10 pounds of mud caked on expensive shoes.
In the bitter cold when the ground was frozen I used Gortex socks under the boots. When the ground was froze in lumps I could feel everything like the princess and the pea but it felt stimulating and I never had any injuries or problems. Once in a while I came down on a root or a rock but it was almost like a massage. I do believe we have reflexology points on the bottoms of our feet and I think running this way stimulated our different organs. They only lasted one winter per pair as the soybean stubble tore them. 0.
But they only cost around $30.00 not the $80.00 my shoes were.

[Jacquie Mardell]

Surfing booties is a good idea. One might want to wear socks with them to keep blisters or abrasions from forming at the seams.

[jsl]

I've been using my VFFs by running a mile at the end of a 4-6 mile run in my regular running shoes (Adizero Bostons). I'd like to use the VFFs more, but they consistently rub a blister on the ball of one or both of my feet whenever I exceed a mile. I may take an Xacto knife and see if I can smooth out the problem, which I think is from the label (poorly) placed on the insole.

An alternative is I just run barefoot on a track after speedwork. Following my last repeat, I take off my shoes and run my cool down shoeless.

Jeff L.

[jsl]

Update: blisters now are no problem, I guess because my feet toughened up. I'm up to 2 miles at a time in the VFFs, generally after a 5-6 mile run in Adidas Adizero Bostons. I too find that without any increase in perceived effort, my pace in the VFFs are the fastest of all of my miles.

These things have been a revelation. I'm still not convinced that I can use the VFFs for longer distances, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try!

Jeff L.

[rjsteadman]

I tried my first completely barefoot run last week. Just 7 mins of running, with 7 mins of walking too. It was mostly road/pavement & have to say I found the little stones a bit painful in places! Quite exhilarating though - I'm going to keep it as an occasional part of my schedule for now.

['cusevff]

I have been running in Vibram KSO's for 6 months now (Chirunning for 2 years). Running 3-4 times per week, short runs 3.5 - 4 miles, long runs up to 7-8 miles for now (on grass, trails and asphalt). My feet do get tired on long runs, but tired feels better than pain. I have been running the last month using Injinji socks with the VFFs (I did get some blisters from a bad seam in one toe in the VFFs, the injinji socks immediately solved that problem). So far, no pain at all. I do feel that I body sense much better in the VFFs. If I feel something weird in a hip, knee, foot, etc., I can immediately adjust and you can feel your body correcting things.

I had been struggling with ITB pain, in knees and hips, and tried so many different shoes, but since I have started running in VFF's I am happy to say those problems have ceased, and I hope it stays that way.

I do have to say that running in VFFs is a LOT of fun. I feel like a kid again (I am 41).