New Balance MR 800 MF mileage blog..

[pacificrunner]

Hi everyone,

I guess I was one of the fortunate Chi-runners in Canada to have been invited by New Balance Canada to wear test and give feedback to their New Balance MR 800 MF (Mid-Foot Striking) last year, but due to allotment and sizing issues, I finally got my own pair from the rep just a few weeks ago. When NB Canada asked me if I wanted to test it, I said sure but to be honest with all of you, I was a bit skeptical. I read the reviews here and do respect the views and input of runners who ran with it and my bad experience with the NB 825 was something I dare not repeat again. Besides, I'm happy with my NB 790 and the Asics Hyperspeed and recently had gotten the Inov-8 Roclite, so I came into the testing with below the radar hopes. But when I tried it on my 2 tempo runs and today a long over 26 miles (44km) run, the shoes completely changed my mind. This is truly a great addition to my library of running shoes, especially as a "super high mileage" trainer.
Thank you New Balance for making such a great shoe for my needs and hope others..

Pros:
1, Very cushy, especially the orange thingy Abzorb foam they have on the side. My outside edge of the foot are usually a bit sore running 20 miles +. No soreness today beyond 20 miles + at all. Impressive.

2, Some sort of medial posting to resist collapsing on the ankle. Perhaps this is a good thing for overpronators like me if you start loosing your core stability on 20 miles + when you no longer able to keep pulling on the connective tissues to keep your ankles collapsing inwards, thus perhaps inflaming the tendons and ligaments around the ankle. With this shoes, I can feel my core starting to loose it past the 42km and I was basically sprinting the last few miles testing my core to the max and the shoes seemed to hold my feet in place very well. Thanks to the medial posting, my ankles are fine.
WARNING -- you should always and always rely on your core to level the pelvis to provide the stability you need to hold the ankles.. A bit of soreness on the legs, but gone now 2 hrs later.. Impressive!

3, Toe down bias. It seemed, like my Inov-8, that it makes my toes put downwards. So you need to pull your heel a bit higher so you don't trip as you swing your driving hips forward. But I guess the good news is that, you land midfoot. Close to a 100k, the heel section of the shoes have no abrasion marks. Good news..

4, Fitting is very similar to my New Balance 790 Z3 version (the 2E sizing). Very roomy on the toes section. The regular NB 790 D version is a bit tight.

5, Did I tell that you can pretty run with these things forever? When I reached the 44km (I was planning for only 23 miles), I wanted to go further. My supply Pepsi on the hydration belt were gone. Perhaps if I stop by a convenience store somewhere and get a 355ml Pepsi can, I could probably go another 6km or so. But I just don't want to tempt my faith. But this certainly solidified my confidence that, I could actually do the whole marathon, one coming up in about 2 months should be a walk in the park. Hope.

6, Good for people who tend to ankle invert?! I felt that there's this wedge thing on the outside of the shoes and it seemed to help my left foot, which besides being an overpronator but also tends to land at a scary angle. This wedge thing seemed to have helped assist that. The ankles felt so much better after 26 miles, so something must be helping my foot stabilize. I tried to run on the nasty sides of the road and not the crown, and it's doing a pretty good job stabilizing my weakest foot. That's probably I pushed hard by leaning forward and blast the last miles -- no pain but all the gain?

7, No blisters and the flatness of the shoes gave an equal pressure on my foot bed. That's really what I need!

Cons:

1, It's heavy and not as responsive as my Asics Hyperspeed or the NB790.

2, It's a bit stiffer than I would like and not as flexible as my Roclite 315. But perhaps, a Chi-running newbie will benefit from this.

3, It gets dirty too easily. But I guess, that's why it's called a running shoe.

I promise NB Canada to wear test and share my findings with everyone. I am just one view of the many wear testers who have these shoes. I hope that by sharing my experiences with all of you, some of you may benefit from running with these shoes.

I'll be running 1/2 and full marathons with these this year. Very exciting. Will see how long these things will last comfort wise as well..

More observations to come..

David.

[Jacquie Mardell]

Thank you so much for these well-thought out observations David!

[pacificrunner]

My pleasure Jacquie!

But I do have to apologize to everyone for some of my broken English though. I was so exhausted physically that I could barely kept my eyes open typing the review. The long sleep was very refreshing and desperately needed btw.

David.

[ETobias]

Thanks David for your evaluation. I just purchased one but have not yet tried running in it. The specs. had the weight of 10.5 pounds, which is slightly on the heavy side but not disasterous. I am excited to start running with them.

Eric

[pacificrunner]

I just did a 5.26km tempo run (with a challenging 3.26km continuous uphill) for a total of 10km with the appropriate warmup and what not. My best time with the Asics Hyperspeed 2 was about 25mins for the 5.26km stretch. Today with the NB MR 800 MF, I slashed it down to about 2 mins and reached a top speed of 3:40min/km on the 1km stretch recorded by my Garmin 101. Perhaps I'm bit fitter than before, but these shoes are still not making me as sore as my current Asics Hyperspeed, but isn't slowing me down either! I am now running with a longer stride (through core rotation and hip extension) and a higher cadence than last year and these shoes seemed to make the foot to road transition so much smoother. One caveat though. My right toe is rubbing against something, so I'm going to investigate what's causing the abrasion (hot spot). This means, I would probably relegate my Asics Hyperspeed to the track and the 790 for short trail runs as my Inov-8 Roclite 315 is very comfy at the moment as well at long distances and is no slouch either!!

I'll trade comfort and little soreness for a slight bulkiness.

David.

[bsgopalan]

Hi David, I have a couple of questions for you.
You say your L leg lands at an angle. I find that too. You try to combat this by making sure your ankles don't collapse by keeping your core engaged.
I have flat feet. When I engage my core and in turn "engage" my ankles I create my self an arch and land more midfoot. But Chirunning also says keep your feet/ankles completely relaxed. When I do this I land in weird angles and more forefoot. I still have my core engaged. I am sure what form is correct. It is hard to engage my ankles over the long run. On the other hand when I have feet completely relaxed there is more foot slapping going around.
Any input?

Bhaskar

[pacificrunner]

Hi David, I have a couple of questions for you.
You say your L leg lands at an angle. I find that too. You try to combat this by making sure your ankles don't collapse by keeping your core engaged.
I have flat feet. When I engage my core and in turn "engage" my ankles I create my self an arch and land more midfoot. But Chirunning also says keep your feet/ankles completely relaxed. When I do this I land in weird angles and more forefoot. I still have my core engaged. I am sure what form is correct. It is hard to engage my ankles over the long run. On the other hand when I have feet completely relaxed there is more foot slapping going around.
Any input?

Bhaskar

Hi Bhaskar,

Wow, a couple of great questions here. Ok, I will try to answer them one by one..

1, When I engage my core, I in turn engage my ankles.

As we level the pelvis in Chi-running, the connective tissues between the arch of the foot and the pelvis get strengthened, which in turns pulls the medial side of the ankle up and if it's strong enough be able to edge towards the lateral side of the foot thus creating its own arch!
That's why Chi-running advocates that the lower part of the leg, knees and ankles should be relaxed. They act as hinges for forward motion and nothing else. Do not use the ankles to stabilize your body if your core is weak. This can overwork your calfs and the peroneal tendons on the side.

Having learned my lessons well while going through Chi-running development myself, I would strongly advise that when the core and the connective tissues are in development, it is advisable to build Chi-running proficiency based on pain as your guide, not mileage. Use body sense..

2, When I do this I land in weird angles and more forefoot

When you land, you should end in a complete mid-foot landing. If this is not your case, then perhaps you are bracing your toes still as you lean forward? You can somewhat mitigate this running with a pelvic twist (core rotation) and usually, you do this when you lean forward more. May I suggest that you first practice basic focuses like ankle lifts (heel lifts) in gear 1 to get a feel of proper mid-foot landing.

3, On the other hand when I have feet completely relaxed there is more foot slapping going around

My suspicion is that, you are going fast with a longer stride than your form can support at the moment. Remember that with Chi-running, two things you must cooperate with to make the forward motion as smooth as you can be. First is gravity by leaning forward to excite motion and second, which is not so much talked about is the forces of the road. It is the forces of the road that actually brings your foot rearward, rotates your pelvis rear and your hip of the landing foot rearward as it extends while the glutes are relaxed and this is assuming you are running fast with a long rearward stride. The forces of the road is enough to do this because fast running brings faster momentum and all you do is keep the core engaged and lift your heels. Yeap, it's that simple. But what if your upper body is not relaxed, your pelvis can not freely turn at will, your hips are tighter than usual and the glutes are a bit tense. What happens when your foot lands and you can not deflect and move in the same direction of forces of the ground, because of your rather tight upper body? You get a hard landing, a smack on the road and then perhaps a lift off again (a Woody Woodpecker effect). Shortening your stride length (emphasize on really short) and leaning less to match the forces of the road will help solve both your landing and your foot slapping..
Once you have discovered pelvic rotation and your ability to relax more is when you can allow yourself to go a bit faster and let the road help you move your relaxed legs from underneath you. In fact, the only speed limit in Chi-running is how much you can relax to get faster, which is an oxymoron. You go fast, your cardio gets worked up which tends to raise your shoulder which has the effect of collapsing your breathing apparatus which makes you breath harder, but you know you need to RELAX MORE to let your legs swing freely more rearward because you're falling faster! The prospect of all this is fun don't you think?!?

Cheers,

David.

[bsgopalan]

Thanks David. I going to try going slower and focus on "creating an arch" as my core gets stronger. You are right. When my foot slaps around I am running pretty fast. Time to slow things down and focus on the basics. Having flat feet all my life I never knew I could "create an arch" and keep pressure on the lateral side. Thanks for your detailed explanations.

[pacificrunner]

Hi Bhaskar,

You are most welcome.. Just remember to rely on body sensing to thread the core building process gradually. You will build a core system unique to your own body only. If I give you my core and my own self-built arches, you wouldn't be able to use it anyhow as much so as yours to me. That's the beauty of the Chi-running core and postural development system!

Good luck on your journey and always feel free to ask more questions..

Cheers,

David.

[pacificrunner]

Finally, my New Balance Mid-Foot shoe meets the dreaded track workout for the 1st time!!

I've been doing track as always with the Asics Hyperspeed. It's a good pair of shoes, but I wanted to find out if this 800 MF shoe can make the cut or not and besides, I'm a long distance runner not a sprinter, so this chunky shoes makes sense for speed training. Anyhow, today's workout was 4 x mile repeats for 200m jog recovery for a total 11km of workouts including warmup. They are tough, but I need a good dosage of those to see how fit I'm at right now for my upcoming half, then a 10k and then a full. So I better get used to fast running with these right! RIGHT! These shoes still do not hinder my speeds at all, even got a negative split at the end of the 4 miler with stunning times.
Track tested and impressed.. New Balance, are you sure this is really a trainer?!?

The only downside is that, I can feel the bulkiness and a bit slower leg turnover. Could be mental perhaps. Would be nice if I have the Shoe Odometer's cadence function recording this.. Soon. Plus side -- again very very little soreness on the legs compared to the Asics -- so I'm not complaining at the moment.

Oh btw, I solved the problem with the right toe rubbing. Apparently the ortholite insert was causing the problem. I guess I don't need that since I've got my own self-built arches, so I replaced it with the Inov-8 neutral insoles and that works great.

David.

[pacificrunner]

On Sunday, I decided to run with the MR 800 MF on a mild trail run with my 10k coached group to see how it performs compared to my Inov-8 Roclite 315.

The stiffness of the shoes is becoming a nuisance for my foot proprioception as I was having a difficult time sensing the rocks, roots and ruts. The shoes slipped a few times on wet rock stones medially and laterally where usually the Roclite would hung on surely like a spider. I don't think it's going to cut it on more difficult trails like the Baden Powell trail we have here -- am afraid of spraining ankles and also afraid of something puncturing underneath the outsoles due to lack of armor plate protection from sharp objects.

Other than that, I did a bunch of hill repeats with it and it worked out quite well perhaps for light trail use, but am not confident with the more technical stuff. The Roclite is still surefooted on the gnarly stuff.

David.

[jsl]

I now have 5 pair of the NB 800 MFs that I've worn out, while training for and running two marathons. I don't wear them any more. My two cents:

The Pros: Low, responsive, lightweight.
The Cons: What little cushioning there is seems to disappear quickly.

I used to wear some heavy, motion-control shoes. After starting ChiRunning, I switched to a show with a little less control (Mizuno Wave Riders). When the NB 800 MFs came out, I tried them. I used them for more than a year as my primary shoes (average 25 miles/week in the 800s).

However, I found that I wanted a shoe with a little less stiffness and a little more cushion, without sacrificing weight and low heel/toe ratio. I just settled on the Addidas Adizero Boston (NOT the Boston Classic). It's considered a performance racer/trainer, little support, but some moderate cushioning. So far, after about 50 miles, they have held up well, injury free, and work well with the ChiRunning system.

Anyone who wants a good shoe but isn't crazy about the NBs might want to take a look.

Jeff L. in Texas

[pacificrunner]

Jeff,

Thanks for the additional comments on the shoes. Hmmm, interesting about the lost of cushioning comment-- do you know at what mileage that the shoes stopped being cushy?
During the search for a lightweight trainer last year, I had tried the NB 825 and most of the Adidas line including the Boston, Mana (I think that's the name) and the Adizero PR and my feet didn't seemed to agree with all of them. That goes to show how personal shoes can be to individual runners! I ended up with the Mizuno Wave Elixir 2.
I haven't placed substantial mileage on these clogs yet as I've been running mostly on the trails with the Inov-8 shoes, but will soon as my road aces are coming up soon. I guess I'll find out soon enough how long these guys will last mileage wise



Cheers,

David.

[jsl]

David,

I found that the 800s wore out pretty darn fast. I started to notice it at about 120 miles, and thought they were essentially dead at 150. I''m not that heavy (165#), so it really surprised me, given that my NB768s that I wear on the road some and trails have 300 miles and are still going strong. But the 800s are unusual shoes, so I guess you can't compare across models.

You're right, shoes are terribly personal. The Bostons seem pretty narrow, with a narrow toebox. That's perfect for me. I find Asics and most other brands feel like boats on my feet.

I'm interested to see how long the Bostons last. I'll post updates in the future.

Jeff L.

[pacificrunner]

Finally, it went over the 100 miles, 106.1 miles to be exact and the cushioning is still pretty darn good, myself being a 145 pounder. The 10k Sun Run was a fun race and the feeling this year was simply awesome -- I think I was quicker but felt like I was in the zone. My Inov-8 shoes is getting ready to be replaced soon as a victim of high mileage training, but it looks like New Balance will soon have some surprises for us come this summer. Looks like, they are not giving up on the MR MF series anything soon and am looking forward to trying out the new version!

David.

[obelix74]

David

Thanks for the excellent reivew. Jacquie referred me to read your posts regarding MR 800.

How would you rate these shoes for an over pronator and beginning chi runner (and heavy @190 lbs). I do have custom orthotics as well.

Do you think this shoes would give enough stability till I become a proficient chi runner?

[pacificrunner]

Obelix74,

I feel deeply honored to have been referred to by Jacquie, and so I will do my best to answer any questions you have about this shoes.

I say your custom orthortics made for your needs would probably give you the needed stability to practice Chi-running. The MR800 provides very little stability, very mild so you don't want to rely solely on the shoes to provide support for your feet. Having said that, the MR-800 comes in only 1 width (D), so it may get a little tight if you start putting in orthortics. If you do plan to buy this shoes, I would highly recommend that you visit a running store that carry this line of shoes. I would not recommend that you buy this online specifically for this fitting issues, knowingly because the students I assisted in my Chi-teachings and who are wearing these shoes with orthortics all were not too happy with the width size. Proper shoe fit is important above all else, so go to a store with knowledgable people to get you sized up properly.

Having said that, the shoes is relatively flat enough to provide some incentive for you to mid-foot strike. The heel is built-up, more so than what Danny likes eventhough he had input in the design process. So watch out any heel striking when you practice your Chi-running as your overpronation can become issues when you do heel stike a lot.

As you become more proficient with the form, you may find that you do or don't need orthortics. Some of us may need orthortics even with proficient form, so don't be alarmed that you still need some stability. It is important to know that everyone is built differently and progresses differently down the road. You should focus on the benefits of good running and all the health and well being that it offers to you.

Last but not least, the MR-800 is discontinued due to be replaced by the MR-801 which has even more heel!

Hope this helps.
David.

[obelix74]

David

Thanks a lot for the response.

My current shoes are a size D as well, from Asics. So if NB D is the same as Asics D, I think it might work for me with the orthotics on.

My current problem is my shoe is overly motion controlling that when I add orthotics, it over corrects me. I am looking for a less correcting shoe, considering the MR 800 as well.

Yes, I will ask around my area to who carries these shoes. These shoes are rare to find in a local store . Zappos still carries them, but as you say, they are vanishing quick.

Appreciate your help.

Obelix74,

I feel deeply honored to have been referred to by Jacquie, and so I will do my best to answer any questions you have about this shoes.

I say your custom orthortics made for your needs would probably give you the needed stability to practice Chi-running. The MR800 provides very little stability, very mild so you don't want to rely solely on the shoes to provide support for your feet. Having said that, the MR-800 comes in only 1 width (D), so it may get a little tight if you start putting in orthortics. If you do plan to buy this shoes, I would highly recommend that you visit a running store that carry this line of shoes. I would not recommend that you buy this online specifically for this fitting issues, knowingly because the students I assisted in my Chi-teachings and who are wearing these shoes with orthortics all were not too happy with the width size. Proper shoe fit is important above all else, so go to a store with knowledgable people to get you sized up properly.

Having said that, the shoes is relatively flat enough to provide some incentive for you to mid-foot strike. The heel is built-up, more so than what Danny likes eventhough he had input in the design process. So watch out any heel striking when you practice your Chi-running as your overpronation can become issues when you do heel stike a lot.

As you become more proficient with the form, you may find that you do or don't need orthortics. Some of us may need orthortics even with proficient form, so don't be alarmed that you still need some stability. It is important to know that everyone is built differently and progresses differently down the road. You should focus on the benefits of good running and all the health and well being that it offers to you.

Last but not least, the MR-800 is discontinued due to be replaced by the MR-801 which has even more heel!

Hope this helps.
David.

[ETobias]

Talking about support for shoes is becoming very complicated. Lately I have been reading articles and this new book of ultramaraton (offhand I cannot remember the name of the book) that less is better. The theory is by adding support to shoes your feet become lazy and weak and therefore have a proclivity for causing injuries, i.e., pf, hamstring pulls, etc. Per the author that is the reason that Nike came out with "Free". Since I periodically get hamstring pulls and once in a while pf I purchased the Free and I am going to give it a try.

Eric

[obelix74]

Eric

you are talking about born to run.

[ETobias]

Yes, that sounds right.

Eric

[pacificrunner]

Hi Eric,

Shoes is a contentious topic because we have 2 camps of people mainly the barefoot crowd (less shoes/no shoes) and the shoes crowd (more shoes/orthortics) that debate endlessly what would be best for the running masses (shoes or no shoes). I am more of in the middle. Let's be realistic that people who write books are presenting a perspective of their own. They may be outliers, or simply their physical attributes allow them to run barefoot for longer distances. That doesn't mean that I will have the same feet as barefoot Joe nor will the general public. There are definitely studies done on running shoes that technology do not solve running ailments. In fact, they may have contributed to even more injuries because shoes give runners a perception that they could do no more harm to run longer distances or over stride more because they were led to believe these shoes will protect them. This is faux beliefs.
At the same time, people are born with whatever feet that came with their bodies. That's your feet. Running barefoot will not make everyone run like the Kenyans do, nor like the many ultra marathoners that roam our beautiful planet today. They are exceptional athletes, but not everyone are mid-foot strikes either. I know of an exceptionally gifted female ultrarunner who's at the top of her game but has terrible form. She needed every support the shoes gives her. I used to have the honor to train along side her running with a pair of NB 790 and she was shocked to see I'm running with them. She commented -- aren't you hurting on those? Granted I don't run 50 miles like she can, well not yet, but that goes to show that good form alone can not build perfect feet. Your feet and body may eventually adapt to become stronger, but if your feet still require some support, this consideration must be honored.
I attended a seminar hosted by a talented marathoner plus A.R.T practitioner about this very topic and I came out convinced after his talk that not everyone's feet can be fixed to perfection. If you want to cover longer distances than what you feet and good form can allow, you need support.

Ultimately, the runner himself has to make that call. It usually involves trial and error and so it is not unusual for a Chi-runner to switch shoes (support then race flat and then back to support).

David.

[ETobias]

Dave;
I recently saw a video on Youtube that did pertain to CHIRUNNING. It did stress that barefoot running does *automatically* cause you to land correctly, i.e., midfoot.

Eric

[obelix74]

Dave;
I recently saw a video on Youtube that did pertain to CHIRUNNING. It did stress that barefoot running does *automatically* cause you to land correctly, i.e., midfoot.

Eric

Eric

That is the argument that Christopher McDougall uses in the book. However, even he went from his stability shoe to a Nike Pegasus and then slowly to another racing flat.

He doesn't run barefoot all the time, he runs bare feet only rarely to fix his form, otherwise he runs on flats.

This pattern is very common. David and Bhaskar in these forums, for instance. They started with Motion Control shoes, go down to Stability shoes, then to moderate flats before attempting barefeet (that is what I understood .

Their argument, which I think is absolutely correct is, if you overdo it, you will cripple yourself quickly. It has to be a gradual progression. Looks like in Bhaskar's case, it was one year.

Danny, elsewhere in his blog notes that beginners shouldn't try to use even something like the Newton Sir Isaac model unless they are proficient with the lean. He suggests we start with something like MR800 to wean us off the power running towards chi running and then proceed to racing flats eventually.

[Catriona]

from my short experiance I have to agree with David.

I over pronate and was given orthotics. After reading the chi-running book and articles about bare foot running and the fact that the orthtoics were uncomfortable in my running shoes I decided to not use them and I also decided to wear unsupported shoes to work. The idea being that not being supported to make my feet work to correct themselves.

This was fine on the treadmill but after my second outdoor run I got terrible medial shin splints and posterior tibial tendonitis. I now cant walk bare foot without concentrating very hard on my foot position.

The fact is some people have feet that are bad enough that going stright to minimilist shoes will do more harm than good becuase it takes time for the feet to change and become stronger etc. In the mean time you run the risk of badly injuring yourself.

I believe you should start out with the shoes that you know support your feet properly and gradually work your way down to less supportive shoes as your feet will allow. I know there is someone on this forum who went from flat feet to a nicely defined arch in around 6 months. If that person started out in racing flats then goodness knows what kind of trouble they would have had.

[pacificrunner]

Dave;
I recently saw a video on Youtube that did pertain to CHIRUNNING. It did stress that barefoot running does *automatically* cause you to land correctly, i.e., midfoot.

Eric

Eric, you are absolutely correct to say that once a person is running bare feet, they do land either forefoot or mid foot. It is an automatic response to lessening the pain on the heel.

Speaking of the heel, Christopher McDougall used the Vibrams Five Fingers because he was suffering from heel pain. After various consulation, he attributed this to his deteriorating form. Running with more shoes than you need can do this. I had experienced this myself and so that is the reason why I do run on the Hyperspeed/790 and Aqua socks (bare feet) to maintain a sense of good posture and feeling. However, my main mileage shoes is still the MR800 or the 790 on the trails. I do not have Chris' feet nor feet of Kenyan runners and may not have them in the future, so I accept what I have. Catriona and Obelix 74 both have exercised extremely good judgment, but this is common sense because we adults can make good enough choices to steer us in a sound healthy direction.

Unfortunately though, most people do not think like Catriona nor Obelix 74 and I've seem them MORE than enough that I lost count with all my fingers and toes. Sadly, people take what they see or read in some books as gospel, without dividing the causes and reasons. When I teach Chi-running and when I see students running either with Vibrams or flats, I do pay extra extra attention towards them. They have no problem with form,but they complained about the upper legs (hamstring, piriformis, quads or hips) and yet are willing to tolerate some pain on the lower legs because they believed this is what it takes to learn good form. Usually, these people have flexibility issues which are revealed in the body loosening exercises. Ankles tight, hips tight, shoulders tight and raised (holding tension), hip flexor shorter than usual. They should be addressed with other healing modalities like Yoga, Pilates, ART, deep tissue massage, physio, chiro or soft form of Aikido. People who sit a lot or bike a lot usually have shorter than usual hip flexors which affects the hamstrings and the glutes. Since I came from a cycling background, I do stretch my hip flexors everyday I can and that helps immensely on my form. A runner should ultimately make a choice what is best for his or her running. If you need to restore some flexibility and relieve tension, perhaps Yoga is what you need. If feet are hurting, perhaps you do need orthotics and mild stability shoes even if other people say you don't. Sometimes, you need to accept certain limitation you have. But what's good with some limitation is that, you never know where that limitation will take you! And we shall look no further for us Canadians to a great runner by the name of Terry Fox who had inspired many cancer patients later to get out and do something about their lives. I salute Terry with all my heart because even with only one leg, he did more marathons in the harshest conditions than I do.

The beauty of Chi-running is that, it is a system with serious of form practices that we can address without the need of running with flats or bare feet. Many other runners simply do the form by trial and error. We do not have to.

David.

[obelix74]

. For instance, I know that my motion control shoes don't go well with my custom orthotics (over correction) and I want to go down.

I can't decide between the Asics Gel 3010 which is a stability shoe vs New Balance NB 800 which I prefer, but I am not certain if it is stable enough with my orthotics .

Decisions, decisions.

[Catriona]

:). For instance, I know that my motion control shoes don't go well with my custom orthotics (over correction) and I want to go down.

I can't decide between the Asics Gel 3010 which is a stability shoe vs New Balance NB 800 which I prefer, but I am not certain if it is stable enough with my orthotics .

Decisions, decisions.

Do you have a running shop that has a treadmill so you can try before you buy?

[obelix74]

:). For instance, I know that my motion control shoes don't go well with my custom orthotics (over correction) and I want to go down.

I can't decide between the Asics Gel 3010 which is a stability shoe vs New Balance NB 800 which I prefer, but I am not certain if it is stable enough with my orthotics .

Decisions, decisions.

Do you have a running shop that has a treadmill so you can try before you buy?

Yes, I do. They are out of nb 800. And the guy thinks I would be doing a great mistake by going without a motion control shoe

[obelix74]

David

I am most interested in the ankle support you mention in these two quotes. I ordered the shoes from zappos (none of my local stores carry this shoe anymore). I hope the shoe fits - and if it does, between this and my orthotics, I hope to start running again.

I have lateral ankle pain and I think it is primarily due to what you say below.

Thanks for all the help.

2, Some sort of medial posting to resist collapsing on the ankle. Perhaps this is a good thing for overpronators like me if you start loosing your core stability on 20 miles + when you no longer able to keep pulling on the connective tissues to keep your ankles collapsing inwards, thus perhaps inflaming the tendons and ligaments around the ankle. With this shoes, I can feel my core starting to loose it past the 42km and I was basically sprinting the last few miles testing my core to the max and the shoes seemed to hold my feet in place very well. Thanks to the medial posting, my ankles are fine.
WARNING -- you should always and always rely on your core to level the pelvis to provide the stability you need to hold the ankles.. A bit of soreness on the legs, but gone now 2 hrs later.. Impressive!

6, Good for people who tend to ankle invert?! I felt that there's this wedge thing on the outside of the shoes and it seemed to help my left foot, which besides being an overpronator but also tends to land at a scary angle. This wedge thing seemed to have helped assist that. The ankles felt so much better after 26 miles, so something must be helping my foot stabilize. I tried to run on the nasty sides of the road and not the crown, and it's doing a pretty good job stabilizing my weakest foot. That's probably I pushed hard by leaning forward and blast the last miles -- no pain but all the gain?